Sourdough

[BonitaApplebum]

Bread people -- what's the shelf life of yeast? I have a big jar of it that I keep in the freezer. It seems to have lost its mojo a bit. Can I just add more than the recipe calls for, or do I need to toss it and buy new yeast?

[Run Amok]

If it's lost it's oomph I'd just replace it. Otherwise it will be unpredictable, which is a bummer.

[BonitaApplebum]

If it's lost it's oomph I'd just replace it. Otherwise it will be unpredictable, which is a bummer.

I made a batch of bread a few weeks ago and didn't get a lot of yeast action when I did, but the bread turned out fine so I didn't worry too much about it. Then Eliza used some yesterday for a volcano science experiment and the volcano didn't blow at all. I gave her a double dose for today and hopefully it works for her, but if it doesn't I think you're right, I should just get new yeast.

[CheryG]

Just replace it.

But... in the future... Instant Yeast is more stable than Active Dry yeast...

[CheryG]

https://www.seriouseats.com/2018/03/all-about-dry-yeast-instant-active-dry-fast-acting-and-more.html

[bookworm1]

Does anyone have experience with one of these silicone break makers? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007F6EN96/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 I am intrigued. I usually just use my bread machine because it is easy, but would like to branch out in types of bread. I do have a cast iron dutch oven, but this thing looks nice and simple.

[CheryG]

I do not.   It looks cool, but it also looks like it won't trap steam, which is why I use the Dutch oven.

[CheryG]

Today's project is a high hydration stretch and fold that had a cold bulk rise and an 8 hour retard straight into the oven- compared with the same dough that's being given a period to rise after the retard.  I need to dial in how the dough feels and reacts during and after a retard.

[Run Amok]

CG, how'd it go?

I tried the KA flour recipe that puts the levain in the fridge for 12 hours. Then a 5 hour bulk ferment on the counter then 2-4 hours after shaping. It sunk around my slashes again. I like the *idea* of that method because when I try and proof loaves in the fridge overnight they always seem to stick to the towel. But, I just haven't had good success with this method!

Bookworm-- clever idea-- I hadn't seen that!

[CheryG]

It didn't go as well as I hoped.  The hydration was super high, but for kicks I went with it anyway. It just didn't have the tension to hold together, I was really pushing the envelope. Tasted great tho! I'm going to repeat this with a lower hydration loaf.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/CheryG/Photo_2019-05-19_01-59-29_PM_zpsrdfbxvkb.png

[Run Amok]

That is basically how most of my overnight retard bread looks. I've only gotten a good rise once or twice. TASTES amazing but falls a little flat.

[CheryG]

A lightbulb went off for me when a friend had been really struggling- how much the Atine recipe is really sped up because of the sugar/honey. Then I realized she said she wasn't using any sweetener.  I chastised her about her not using the poke test at all... and told her it was going to take a LOT longer.  Next loaf baked, she let the first rise go until the poke test was good, shaped and then retarded for 24 hours.  Bam! Perfect loaf.

I think my plan should be just that- omit the sweet from Atine and after the first rise is hustling along divide it into 3 with the plan to retard them and bake off at 12, 24 and 36 hours.

[Run Amok]

So, I had read that wild yeast can't metabolize sugar the way package yeast can. Is that wrong?

[CheryG]

From what I have read, yeast likes the sugar too much- the rise is fast and it doesn't make the yeast work "harder" by taking time to break down the grain sugars.  As long as the recipe doesn't have added yeast in it, I'm not too worried, personally.

http://www.breadsrsly.com/blog/2017/9/13/wild-yeast-vs-commercial-yeast

[Natasha]

Is a higher hydration bread softer?

[CheryG]

The crust will still be hard. The water is baked off, the hydration is used to create maximum steam in the bread, for rise and holes.  It wasn't intentional, the high hydration in that recipe.  The original recipe, even with weighed ingredients, was far too stiff. Dunno, might have misweighed.  So I added what was too much water, and decided to roll with it.  Then I put it in the mixer to see how it would come together- not! Mixer is too strong for that type of dough and the gluten kept fracturing instead of bonding.  So i switched to S and F, it came together beautifully- I think I misread how much tension I needed in the shaping.

https://www.sfbi.com/high-hydration-dough-shaping.html

[Run Amok]

If you've ever had something like a ciabatta? That is a high hydration dough.

My latest atine loaf was great! I find that the atine reicpe is pretty forgiving about whether you start with a ripe starter or one that is active but maybe past the peak. But, yesterday I used a ripe starter (fed at 5am) and worked on it all day and it's a beaut!

[CheryG]

This mind blowing beaut was just posted- high hydration ciabatta-

https://www.facebook.com/groups/perfectsourdough/permalink/2796540347082958/

I think of the skill progression as being-
First level- typical yeast bread
Second level- "Spiked" wild yeast bread
Third Level- Atine type wild yeast bread (sugars added)
Fourth level- "Pure" wild yeast, just water, starter, flour and salt.
Intermediare- "Pure" wild yeast, with a retard
Prix St Georges- High hydration wild yeast
Grand Prix- sourdough croissant

[CheryG]

Today's bake: The Atine recipe, minus sugar and oil.  Levain sat for 12 hours (oops), stretch and fold for 3 hours, retard for 8 hours. I wanted to retard it for longer but it looked like it had risen too much already and would be overproofed.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx43iFvAWxI/?igshid=1tue3imx8pn9g

[diablita]

oh wow Cheryl!